Dershowitz states that there is an Epstein list and he has seen it. Not good at all for the attorney general or the FBI director. Or Alina Habbaba.

I believe there is a list and a whole lot more. And I'm as impatient as the next guy on this topic because of the enormity I believe it to represent. However, Trump, the real estate mogul, understands one thing better than almost anyone, and that's leverage. Trump has the people on that list by the short hairs. He can use that to his advantage and I suspect that's what he's doing.
 
Jokerman said:
How many threads is this clown going to get shut down? Now it's back to Trump is Hitler. He sits there and writes an entire page to hear himself talk, and didn't even understand my post.
Click to expand...

He's a wackjob. Put him on Ignore as a lot of people, recently to include myself, have done.
 
Indynittany said:
I believe there is a list and a whole lot more. And I'm as impatient as the next guy on this topic because of the enormity I believe it to represent. However, Trump, the real estate mogul, understands one thing better than almost anyone, and that's leverage. Trump has the people on that list by the short hairs. He can use that to his advantage and I suspect that's what he's doing.
Click to expand...

Indy, I disagree with you on that. In fact, if it were true, Trump would be no better than the people who supposedly ran the Epstein op in the first place.

If there is a list, which I doubt, then the people on it should be punished...not blackmailed...for the crime of sexually exploiting children.

I don't think the explanation is so exotic or complicated. Now that they're in charge of things, people who once did a lot of huffing and puffing about Epstein have found out that either there's no there there...or the "there" is a lot more complicated and dicey than they realized.

Either way, there's no way to put a shiny gloss on Trump's blustery demand that the whole matter be instantly dropped.

I don't for a second believe Epstein committed suicide. But I also don't believe we're ever going to know the truth about whether he was simply a scumbag who had a lot of connections and knew a lot of people...or whether he was a central figure in a sophisticated government-run blackmail op.

I tend to doubt it's the latter but if it is, those with the resources and the access to get to him in his high-security prison cell would also presumably have the wherewithal to make sure any evidence of the op was effectively erased.
 
Jokerman said:
How many threads is this clown going to get shut down? Now it's back to Trump is Hitler. He sits there and writes an entire page to hear himself talk, and didn't even understand my post.
Click to expand...
Jokeofaman … YOU invoked the Nazis, and claimed the Dems are acting just like them. Then I highlight the ridiculousness of your assertion and the more appropriate equivalency to the Nazis and you start blathering about ME getting threads shut down!?! You’re definitely not all there. And U2 hates you.
 
Dershowitz commentary in this morning's WSJ:

>>Epstein never created a “client list.” The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.” These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed but the courts have ordered them sealed. I know who they are. They don’t include any current officeholders. We don’t know whether the accusations are true. The courts have also sealed negative information about some of the accusers to protect them. Neither the Justice Department nor private defense lawyers are free to disregard court sealing orders. The media can and should petition the courts for the release of all names and information so the public can draw its own conclusions...

It is clear from the evidence that Epstein committed suicide. What isn’t clear is whether he was assisted by jail personnel. That seems likely to me, based on the evidence of allegedly broken cameras, transfer of his cellmate and the absence of guards during relevant time periods.

I have absolutely no doubt that Epstein never worked for any intelligence agency. If he had, he would surely have told me and his other lawyers, who would have used that information to get him a better deal...<<

Dig it: he definitely committed suicide but this was probably "assisted by jail personnel."

Oh please.

So the question is who got to or otherwise "assisted" the jail personnel themselves. Or did they just decide one night, hey, things are slow, let's help Jeff commit suicide. Good grief.

Also, those alleged to have been clients don't include "current" officeholders. Dershowitz is a lawyer. I think the use of the word "current" is pretty meaningful there.
 
Jokerman said:
He is. Can't believe he's still on here.
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There would be no legitimate reason to get rid of me.

My only sin is disagreeing with the MAGAt crew. You guys are more hateful and dismissive of non-MAGAts than I am of you. And there’s a whole crew of you. And you still can’t handle me.
 
Jerry said:
Dershowitz commentary in this morning's WSJ:

>>Epstein never created a “client list.” The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.” These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed but the courts have ordered them sealed. I know who they are. They don’t include any current officeholders. We don’t know whether the accusations are true. The courts have also sealed negative information about some of the accusers to protect them. Neither the Justice Department nor private defense lawyers are free to disregard court sealing orders. The media can and should petition the courts for the release of all names and information so the public can draw its own conclusions...

It is clear from the evidence that Epstein committed suicide. What isn’t clear is whether he was assisted by jail personnel. That seems likely to me, based on the evidence of allegedly broken cameras, transfer of his cellmate and the absence of guards during relevant time periods.

I have absolutely no doubt that Epstein never worked for any intelligence agency. If he had, he would surely have told me and his other lawyers, who would have used that information to get him a better deal...<<

Dig it: he definitely committed suicide but this was probably "assisted by jail personnel."

Oh please.

So the question is who got to or otherwise "assisted" the jail personnel themselves. Or did they just decide one night, hey, things are slow, let's help Jeff commit suicide. Good grief.

Also, those alleged to have been clients don't include "current" officeholders. Dershowitz is a lawyer. I think the use of the word "current" is pretty meaningful there.
Click to expand...
I watched him on YouTube. He said he had close contacts with Israeli intelligence because he represented some of their officers. Undoubtedly true. Then he said that they assured him that Israeli intelligence was not involved.-- like Israeli intelligence would admit their involvement.
 
Jerry said:
Dershowitz commentary in this morning's WSJ:

>>Epstein never created a “client list.” The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.” These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed but the courts have ordered them sealed. I know who they are. They don’t include any current officeholders. We don’t know whether the accusations are true. The courts have also sealed negative information about some of the accusers to protect them. Neither the Justice Department nor private defense lawyers are free to disregard court sealing orders. The media can and should petition the courts for the release of all names and information so the public can draw its own conclusions...

It is clear from the evidence that Epstein committed suicide. What isn’t clear is whether he was assisted by jail personnel. That seems likely to me, based on the evidence of allegedly broken cameras, transfer of his cellmate and the absence of guards during relevant time periods.

I have absolutely no doubt that Epstein never worked for any intelligence agency. If he had, he would surely have told me and his other lawyers, who would have used that information to get him a better deal...<<

Dig it: he definitely committed suicide but this was probably "assisted by jail personnel."

Oh please.

So the question is who got to or otherwise "assisted" the jail personnel themselves. Or did they just decide one night, hey, things are slow, let's help Jeff commit suicide. Good grief.

Also, those alleged to have been clients don't include "current" officeholders. Dershowitz is a lawyer. I think the use of the word "current" is pretty meaningful there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people can quibble over the semantics of what constitutes government involvement, but we just watched the government withhold both threat knowledge and security from the main opponents of the sitting president. Then we found out in the Kennedy assassination files the director of the CIA had Oswald's file on his desk the day of Kennedy's assassination. I sure do love coincidences.

I also don't think Trump would prefer blackmail over justice for pedophiles because of his moral compass. After all, he's the one who contacted the police and took concrete actions against Epstein years ago. What I suspect is, like Diddy, some "shoddy" investigations took place where evidence was suppressed or disappeared into the ether. Funny how all these major democratic donors seem to be protected from prosecution for so long. You've got all these victims, people convicted of trafficking, and yet no perpetrators. How are the victims supposed to get justice?
 
Jerry said:
Dershowitz commentary in this morning's WSJ:

>>Epstein never created a “client list.” The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.” These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed but the courts have ordered them sealed. I know who they are. They don’t include any current officeholders. We don’t know whether the accusations are true. The courts have also sealed negative information about some of the accusers to protect them. Neither the Justice Department nor private defense lawyers are free to disregard court sealing orders. The media can and should petition the courts for the release of all names and information so the public can draw its own conclusions...

It is clear from the evidence that Epstein committed suicide. What isn’t clear is whether he was assisted by jail personnel. That seems likely to me, based on the evidence of allegedly broken cameras, transfer of his cellmate and the absence of guards during relevant time periods.

I have absolutely no doubt that Epstein never worked for any intelligence agency. If he had, he would surely have told me and his other lawyers, who would have used that information to get him a better deal...<<

Dig it: he definitely committed suicide but this was probably "assisted by jail personnel."

Oh please.

So the question is who got to or otherwise "assisted" the jail personnel themselves. Or did they just decide one night, hey, things are slow, let's help Jeff commit suicide. Good grief.

Also, those alleged to have been clients don't include "current" officeholders. Dershowitz is a lawyer. I think the use of the word "current" is pretty meaningful there.
Click to expand...

I was just going to post the same. Good article.
 
Jerry said:
Dershowitz commentary in this morning's WSJ:

>>Epstein never created a “client list.” The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.” These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed but the courts have ordered them sealed. I know who they are. They don’t include any current officeholders. We don’t know whether the accusations are true. The courts have also sealed negative information about some of the accusers to protect them. Neither the Justice Department nor private defense lawyers are free to disregard court sealing orders. The media can and should petition the courts for the release of all names and information so the public can draw its own conclusions...

It is clear from the evidence that Epstein committed suicide. What isn’t clear is whether he was assisted by jail personnel. That seems likely to me, based on the evidence of allegedly broken cameras, transfer of his cellmate and the absence of guards during relevant time periods.

I have absolutely no doubt that Epstein never worked for any intelligence agency. If he had, he would surely have told me and his other lawyers, who would have used that information to get him a better deal...<<

Dig it: he definitely committed suicide but this was probably "assisted by jail personnel."

Oh please.

So the question is who got to or otherwise "assisted" the jail personnel themselves. Or did they just decide one night, hey, things are slow, let's help Jeff commit suicide. Good grief.

Also, those alleged to have been clients don't include "current" officeholders. Dershowitz is a lawyer. I think the use of the word "current" is pretty meaningful there.
Click to expand...
The Key items:
  • 1) Epstein never created a “client list
  • 2) The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.”
  • 3) We don’t know whether the accusations are true
  • 4) These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed
  • 5) They don’t include any current officeholders
Let's assume this is all true. Why should the names of those accused be made public if there is no evidence of their guilt? It seems to me that the media would go nuts with this information and that would lead to more conspiracy theories in addition to ruining lives.
 
bdroc said:
The Key items:
  • 1) Epstein never created a “client list
  • 2) The FBI interviewed alleged victims who named several “clients.”
  • 3) We don’t know whether the accusations are true
  • 4) These names have been redacted. They should be disclosed
  • 5) They don’t include any current officeholders
Let's assume this is all true. Why should the names of those accused be made public if there is no evidence of their guilt? It seems to me that the media would go nuts with this information and that would lead to more conspiracy theories in addition to ruining lives.
Click to expand...

I think that's the case some people are making, and it has some merit.

But why then doesn't Trump (or Bondi) simply tell us this instead of insulting our intelligence with the abrupt nothing-to-see-here-move-along treatment...after years of insisting there was a lot to see and after Pam's various stunts a few months ago?

Also, I think you nicely summarized key points from Dershowitz's article this morning but there's one you didn't mention: his opinion that unnamed jail personnel probably "assisted" in Epstein's (supposed) suicide. If this happened, there is no innocent explanation: the personnel in question were either paid or coerced.

I think the suicide thing is key. I don't think Epstein committed suicide. And that means somebody or somebodies wanted Epstein dead, which is not hard to believe.

In addition, Dershowitz airily waves off the theory that Epstein was working for the Israelis. I'm not so sure myself and further below, in response to a comment by Buck, will post excerpts from a former U.S. spook's interesting opinion on that topic.

At the end of the day, like I've been saying, we're likely never going to get to ground truth, which is frustrating but something we're just going to have to deal with. Honestly, my first concern at this point is a circular firing squad that will be a gift to the Evil Party, which is already seeking to capitalize on the administration's mishandling of all this.
 
Dailybuck777 said:
I watched him on YouTube. He said he had close contacts with Israeli intelligence because he represented some of their officers. Undoubtedly true. Then he said that they assured him that Israeli intelligence was not involved.-- like Israeli intelligence would admit their involvement.
Click to expand...

Buck, conservative commentator Rod Dreher, who like many is highly skeptical of the administration's sudden nothing-to-see-here posture, today cited excerpts from a recent post by former U.S. spook John Schindler who writes in part:

>>There’s simply no mileage for American media asking difficult questions about Israel. As a lifelong Zionist and supporter of the Jewish state it pains me to say this, but few encouraged serious examination of who Epstein was really working for. Despite the fact that the dead pedophile’s connections to Israel were obvious.

Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein’s bestie and victim-procurer, was the daughter of Robert Maxwell, a British publishing executive and high-level MOSSAD agent...while Ehud Barak, Israel’s former prime minister and top general, spent so much time with Epstein, including whole months at a go, that even the Israeli government found it embarrassing. Merely applying Occam’s Razor, without benefit of highly classified intelligence, Israel had to be the lead suspect in any examination of Epstein’s foreign connections...

...the stunning revelation in 2019 by then-Labor Secretary Alex Acosta that back in 2008, when Acosta was the U.S. Attorney for South Florida, he signed off on Epstein’s shockingly lenient plea deal for sex crimes against minors because Justice Department higher-ups in Washington wanted him to go easy because Epstein “belonged to intelligence.” Having said the unsayable, Acosta soon resigned from Trump’s first cabinet under a cloud.

Acosta’s admission was a game-changing event, as I reported in July 2019 when the news broke, in a deep-dive for the New York Observer titled “It Sure Looks Like Jeffrey Epstein was a Spy – But Whose?” Based on my real-world counterintelligence experience, my initial conclusion was that, while U.S. intelligence had to be aware of Epstein’s crimes perpetrated on American soil, against American victims, to some degree, it was unlikely that U.S. intelligence – think FBI and CIA – were Epstein’s main partners and benefactors.

Instead, foreign intelligence services were the likely culprits, probably more than one. Israel was unavoidably the lead suspect, given Epstein’s close ties to that country, through Russia’s “special services” made the short list too. As I concluded my analysis, “What’s not in doubt is that a sex trafficking ring centered on minors, which involved numerous global VIPs in compromising situations, would be of high interest to quite a few intelligence services. The Epstein saga seems certain to get even more unpleasant and interesting.”

That it certainly did. However, from the start, the Epstein story, which only got stranger with the suspect’s death in his Manhattan jail cell on Aug. 10, 2019, under unexplained circumstances, was too big for the media to touch. It was all too much, with its pervert VIPs, including presidents and princes, sordid sexual perversions, vast sums of somebody’s money, plus international intrigue amid hints of espionage. If some banks are too big to fail, the Epstein story was too big to cover seriously for the mainstream media, which instead focused on human interest aspects such as his victims, while avoiding tough questions, especially those two key questions I mentioned...

Most inquirers have been cranks, conspiracists, and bona fide anti-Semites, who got interested in Epstein only because they hated Jews. Such fringe-theorizing is easy for the powers that be to dismiss, so they have. However, the second Trump administration’s astonishingly inept showcasing of the Epstein scandal, only to attempt to smother it, has opened the floodgates, and now a Republican commentator of stature [Tucker Carlson] has said the unsayable, thereby changing the debate.<<

Schindler points up the media's past hesitancy to examine the issue of Epstein. But that was only when it looked like fingers might point at the Democrats and their friends. Now that it's Trump and his people who can be made to look bad, the media is quite happy to chase the story on behalf of their Democratic Party owners.

Also, nothing in Schindler's post constitutes proof of anything and in the end, I don't think there will be any proof. I mean, if people like Kash Patel and Dan Bongino aren't going to cough it up, then who in the world will?
 
Trump triples down and spazzes out. It turns out the Epstein saga was a Dem-Mediacrat trick the whole time...even though it was conservatives and MAGA people who were the loudest in demanding the truth while Trump himself pledged to release the files.

Also, all those Trump voters who refuse to follow the new marching orders? They're all traitors and Trump doesn't want them on the team anymore.

Holy crap. I've heard of shooting yourself in the foot but this takes it to a whole different level:

Ghislaine 'Ready' To Testify As Trump Triples Down, Slams 'Weakling PAST Supporters Who Believe Epstein Hoax' | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
 
Jerry said:
Trump triples down and spazzes out. It turns out the Epstein saga was a Dem-Mediacrat trick the whole time...even though it was conservatives and MAGA people who were the loudest in demanding the truth while Trump himself pledged to release the files.

Also, all those Trump voters who refuse to follow the new marching orders? They're all traitors and Tmp doesn't want them on the team anymore.

Holy crap. I've heard of shooting yourself in the foot but this takes it to a whole different level:

Ghislaine 'Ready' To Testify As Trump Triples Down, Slams 'Weakling PAST Supporters Who Believe Epstein Hoax' | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
Click to expand...
Show us the video or the quote of Trump calling his supporters traitors and that he doesn't want them on the team anymore.
 
Trump is a New Yorker, likes celebrity and the depth level (and look) of Fox News personalities. Stephen Miller looks like an eyes wide open guy, but some additional serious people are needed in Trump's inner circle.
 
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