Miami in, ND out

[Jerry]

The money and the schedule is why ND needs to be banned from the playoff for good unless they join a conference. They play a $hit schedule. They still lose 2 games and expect to be handed a FULL SHARE of the college football playoff money? Is this a yearly expectation for them? Show up and get handed money that the conferences just willingly give up. Join a conference. Play by the same rules. Or get banished to college football obscurity. You get nothing special for pretending to be a Catholic school. Play by the same rules or get relegated to an afterthought. I'm glad that they aren't in any bowl this year. Get used to it ND. That is your future unless you play by the same rules. You aren't special.

I'm of two minds about this conference thing with respect to Notre Dame. On the one hand, I've felt for years that they should take the plunge and do exactly that. With the possible exception of the SEC, there isn't a conference out there that wouldn't welcome them with open arms. Leagues like the Big-12 and ACC would be instantly fortified by Irish membership.

On the other hand, I also understand why they're holding back. For just one thing, if you join a league, then you have to jump through the league's hoops, to include these ridiculous and now obsolete CCGs that put players at additional risk for no other reason than making bookoo bucks for the networks and conferences.

As for "special," no question, that perceived attitude rubs a lot of people the wrong way. At the end of the day, however, they remain the most storied brand in college football history and the fact that they can get away with not joining a conference is a product of that fact while also an indicator that they are in a way special. I mean, you can resent the hell out of that but it remains true.

But leave all that aside for purposes of this argument which has to do with the final CFP rankings. Notre Dame has been on a roll since September. Vegas gave them the 4th best odds to win the whole enchilada, which I think is a pretty accurate assessment of where they now rank in terms of current on-field performance.

Yet now instead of Notre Dame playing Oklahoma in Norman, which would be a dynamite matchup and must-see TV, we get to watch a stale SEC rerun of 3-loss Alabama, recently blown out by Georgia, play Oklahoma again.

Love Notre Dame or hate them, my point is that their exclusion from the field by a last-minute reordering of the final rankings in order to give the SEC a 5th team while accommodating the ACC and ESPN was obvious politics. There is no other defensible explanation.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

I'm of two minds about this conference thing with respect to Notre Dame. On the one hand, I've felt for years that they should take the plunge and do exactly that. With the possible exception of the SEC, there isn't a conference out there that wouldn't welcome them with open arms. Leagues like the Big-12 and ACC would be instantly fortified by Irish membership.

On the other hand, I also understand why they're holding back. For just one thing, if you join a league, then you have to jump through the league's hoops, to include these ridiculous and now obsolete CCGs that put players at additional risk for no other reason than making bookoo bucks for the networks and conferences.

As for "special," no question, that perceived attitude rubs a lot of people the wrong way. At the end of the day, however, they remain the most storied brand in college football history and the fact that they can get away with not joining a conference is a product of that fact while also an indicator that they are in a way special. I mean, you can resent the hell out of that but it remains true.

But leave all that aside for purposes of this argument which has to do with the final CFP rankings. Notre Dame has been on a roll since September. Vegas gave them the 4th best odds to win the whole enchilada, which I think is a pretty accurate assessment of where they now rank in terms of current on-field performance.

Yet now instead of Notre Dame playing Oklahoma in Norman, which would be a dynamite matchup and must-see TV, we get to watch a stale SEC rerun of 3-loss Alabama, recently blown out by Georgia, play Oklahoma again.

Love Notre Dame or hate them, my point is that their exclusion from the field by a last-minute reordering of the final rankings in order to give the SEC a 5th team while accommodating the ACC and ESPN was obvious politics. There is no other defensible explanation.

ND scored a decades worth of payout from their BCS appearance last year because they don't have to split it. They get to cherry pick a weak schedule and still lost to the only 2 teams that were even borderline playoff teams that were on that schedule that weren't expected to be playoff teams. The conferences own the playoff. They have all of the leverage. Why would they allow ND or any independent to punk them out of many millions of dollars annually?

Force ND into a conference where they have to play by the same rules as everyone else and get to share in the payout or cut them out completely. Force them to schedule D2 teams and fade into the wayback memories of 1950s college football. There are too many millions of dollars on the line to let ND steal from the conferences. They can play by the rules or stay home. I'm ok with either.

Next year ND's schedule is EVEN WEAKER. They have been angling for a free pass to the playoff payout annually.

They play 4-8 Wisconsin, 5-7 Rice, 4-8 Mich St, 2-10 Purdue, 4-8 UNC, 9-2 Navy, 10-2 #10 Miami, 2-10 BC, 8-4 SMU, 3-9 Syracuse, 4-8 Stanford, 9-3 #16 USC.

That is 2 ranked teams and only 4 teams with a winning record. Our schedule next year is the weakest we've possibly seen since entering the Bi 10 but theirs is even weaker.

 

[marylovesthelions]

Yeah, I know there will be no tears shed for the Irish but let's not pretend that the committee's final ranking with respect to Alabama, Notre Dame, and Miami was anything other than pure politics. There was no science...much less intellectual integrity...to it.

They were afraid to stiff sacred Alabama and the mighty SEC even though Alabama has 3 losses and has not looked terribly good over the last four games of the season before getting dominated by Georgia in the CCG.

They were afraid to stiff the entire ACC after 5-loss Duke took down Virginia in that league's CCG, threatening to leave the conference without a single participant in the playoff while teams like JMU and Tulane got a ticket to the dance.

Therefore, Notre Dame, which is playing arguably the best college football in the country now and only a few weeks ago was ranked 8 CFP spots ahead of Miami while never once being ranked behind Miami until today's final list came out, got the shaft.

So now fans won't get to see a Notre Dame-Oklahoma matchup in Norman and after that a potential Notre Dame-Indiana game. Either one of those might have been a classic.

The head-to-head argument is pure bullshite. Funny thing about head-to-head. The media blatherers haul that factor out when it suits them and fits their preferred narrative. Other times they'll solemnly look into the camera and tell us why it really doesn't matter. Remember 2016 when our head-to-head win over Ohio State suddenly counted for nothing?

If Notre Dame's 3-point loss to Miami in Miami's home stadium early in the year were such a decisive factor, then why did it take the committee 5 full weeks to figure that out? Why was Notre Dame ranked ahead of Miami as recently as last Tuesday? What happened between then and now to change the equation?

Here's the thing. I just don't like to have my intelligence insulted. Don't look me in the eye and tell me stuff that makes no sense because that suggests to me that you think I'm dumb enough to believe it.

OK, I get the people rubbing their hands in glee over Notre Dame getting screwed but as the fan of a team that's been screwed so many times over the last many decades, the only time I'm gonna rub my hands in glee is when either Ohio State or Michigan or the SEC gets screwed over. And guess what...that ain't never gonna happen...and we all know why...

KISS and your remarks are indeed STUPID. There is no better difference maker than head to head results. We quit scheduling the sure win academies decades ago. ND should be punished for not playing a league schedule, not rewarded.

 

[Frank Lee]

Even the 25th-ranked team has a shot at a Natty, but it's the top four, maybe six, that have a legitimate argument for being the best team in college football. So if a team is ranked from say #10 to infinity and get into the playoffs, then it should be grateful that it gets to participate, but it will never (98.62%) be the best team. I'm looking at you Alabama and Miami.

 

[NittanyLion99]

I'm of two minds about this conference thing with respect to Notre Dame. On the one hand, I've felt for years that they should take the plunge and do exactly that. With the possible exception of the SEC, there isn't a conference out there that wouldn't welcome them with open arms. Leagues like the Big-12 and ACC would be instantly fortified by Irish membership.

On the other hand, I also understand why they're holding back. For just one thing, if you join a league, then you have to jump through the league's hoops, to include these ridiculous and now obsolete CCGs that put players at additional risk for no other reason than making bookoo bucks for the networks and conferences.

As for "special," no question, that perceived attitude rubs a lot of people the wrong way. At the end of the day, however, they remain the most storied brand in college football history and the fact that they can get away with not joining a conference is a product of that fact while also an indicator that they are in a way special. I mean, you can resent the hell out of that but it remains true.

But leave all that aside for purposes of this argument which has to do with the final CFP rankings. Notre Dame has been on a roll since September. Vegas gave them the 4th best odds to win the whole enchilada, which I think is a pretty accurate assessment of where they now rank in terms of current on-field performance.

Yet now instead of Notre Dame playing Oklahoma in Norman, which would be a dynamite matchup and must-see TV, we get to watch a stale SEC rerun of 3-loss Alabama, recently blown out by Georgia, play Oklahoma again.

Love Notre Dame or hate them, my point is that their exclusion from the field by a last-minute reordering of the final rankings in order to give the SEC a 5th team while accommodating the ACC and ESPN was obvious politics. There is no other defensible explanation.

Your son once said this [slightly paraphrased]. And to be clear, this is not meant as adversarial.

There's a lot of lies in the world. One of the worst is the idea that tradeoffs don’t exist. The lie that you can “have it all.” That you can do everything, be everything, have everything—all at the same time, without giving anything up. But that’s not life. That’s not how any of this works. Being a functional adult in society means understanding that every choice comes with a cost. It means accepting that you can’t do two competing things simultaneously and expect nothing to suffer. You make a choice. You live with it.

Everything is life is a tradeoff. ND tries to have it all. They want all the privileges of playing in a conference, but none of the downsides. Thinking they can is a lie. Playing in a conference means you play a conference schedule and winning a P4 conference [generally] comes with the privilege of a CFP bid, because winning matters. In a conference, you can generally survive an early loss against a ranked opponent.
When you are an independent, and you make your schedule, and you lose to the only 2 ranked teams on it, you don't get the benefit of being in the conference and potentially being in a CCG. You only get the judgement of your record for the whole year and ND's resume is shite. As Matt says eloquently above, Notre Dame made has made a choice and they need to live with it.

 

[Jerry]

ND scored a decades worth of payout from their BCS appearance last year because they don't have to split it. They get to cherry pick a weak schedule and still lost to the only 2 teams that were even borderline playoff teams that were on that schedule that weren't expected to be playoff teams. The conferences own the playoff. They have all of the leverage. Why would they allow ND or any independent to punk them out of many millions of dollars annually?

Force ND into a conference where they have to play by the same rules as everyone else and get to share in the payout or cut them out completely. Force them to schedule D2 teams and fade into the wayback memories of 1950s college football. There are too many millions of dollars on the line to let ND steal from the conferences. They can play by the rules or stay home. I'm ok with either.

Next year ND's schedule is EVEN WEAKER. They have been angling for a free pass to the playoff payout annually.

They play 4-8 Wisconsin, 5-7 Rice, 4-8 Mich St, 2-10 Purdue, 4-8 UNC, 9-2 Navy, 10-2 #10 Miami, 2-10 BC, 8-4 SMU, 3-9 Syracuse, 4-8 Stanford, 9-3 #16 USC.

That is 2 ranked teams and only 4 teams with a winning record. Our schedule next year is the weakest we've possibly seen since entering the Bi 10 but theirs is even weaker.

Well as for playing by the rules, like, whose rules? Notre Dame played by the rules in force at this time. If you want a rule saying no team that isn't in a conference can qualify for a playoff spot, OK, then put that rule on the books. Thinking there should be such a rule does not make it exist.

By the way, here's some irony for you: the rules are changing next year but not in a direction that you would favor. Specifically, Notre Dame will be guaranteed a playoff spot if it finishes in the top-12 of the final CFP poll regardless.

I just don't agree with you on the question of strength of schedule. In fact, according to ESPN's index (linked below), Notre Dame played a more competitive schedule in 2025 than Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon, Ole Miss, or Texas Tech. Sagarin's SOS list agrees.

Meanwhile, the FPI index shows Notre Dame a bit further down the list (#44) but still a notch better than Miami. Actually 44 is the lowest number I've seen, but given that there are 136 teams, even that rank is hardly disgraceful.

But all this is beside the point of my argument, which, again, is as capsulized above: Notre Dame's exclusion from the field by a last-minute reordering of the final rankings in order to give the SEC a 5th team while accommodating the ACC and ESPN was obviously and purely politics.

College football strength of schedule: 2025 rankings ahead of CFP release

A look at the college football strength of schedule rankings ahead of the release of the first College Football Playoff rankings of 2025.

fbschedules.com

 

[Jerry]

Your son once said this [slightly paraphrased]. And to be clear, this is not meant as adversarial.

There's a lot of lies in the world. One of the worst is the idea that tradeoffs don’t exist. The lie that you can “have it all.” That you can do everything, be everything, have everything—all at the same time, without giving anything up. But that’s not life. That’s not how any of this works. Being a functional adult in society means understanding that every choice comes with a cost. It means accepting that you can’t do two competing things simultaneously and expect nothing to suffer. You make a choice. You live with it.

Everything is life is a tradeoff. ND tries to have it all. They want all the privileges of playing in a conference, but none of the downsides. Thinking they can is a lie. Playing in a conference means you play a conference schedule and winning a P4 conference [generally] comes with the privilege of a CFP bid, because winning matters. In a conference, you can generally survive an early loss against a ranked opponent.
When you are an independent, and you make your schedule, and you lose to the only 2 ranked teams on it, you don't get the benefit of being in the conference and potentially being in a CCG. You only get the judgement of your record for the whole year and ND's resume is shite. As Matt says eloquently above, Notre Dame made has made a choice and they need to live with it.

Well far be it from me to argue with Matt...

He's a huge Ravens fans, by the way. Doesn't really follow the college game at all.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

Well as for playing by the rules, like, whose rules? Notre Dame played by the rules in force at this time. If you want a rule saying no team that isn't in a conference can qualify for a playoff spot, OK, then put that rule on the books. Thinking there should be such a rule does not make it exist.

By the way, here's some irony for you: the rules are changing next year but not in a direction that you would favor. Specifically, Notre Dame will be guaranteed a playoff spot if it finishes in the top-12 of the final CFP poll regardless.

I just don't agree with you on the question of strength of schedule. In fact, according to ESPN's index (linked below), Notre Dame played a more competitive schedule in 2025 than Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon, Ole Miss, or Texas Tech. Sagarin's SOS list agrees.

Meanwhile, the FPI index shows Notre Dame a bit further down the list (#44) but still a notch better than Miami. Actually 44 is the lowest number I've seen, but given that there are 136 teams, even that rank is hardly disgraceful.

But all this is beside the point of my argument, which, again, is as capsulized above: Notre Dame's exclusion from the field by a last-minute reordering of the final rankings in order to give the SEC a 5th team while accommodating the ACC and ESPN was obviously and purely politics.

College football strength of schedule: 2025 rankings ahead of CFP release

A look at the college football strength of schedule rankings ahead of the release of the first College Football Playoff rankings of 2025.

fbschedules.com

I believe that change is for 2026 only. It's time for major conferences to shut ND totally out. That includes preventing their schools from scheduling ND. Starve them until they are willing to play by the same rules as every other team.

 

[Jerry]

KISS and your remarks are indeed STUPID. There is no better difference maker than head to head results. We quit scheduling the sure win academies decades ago. ND should be punished for not playing a league schedule, not rewarded.

Mary, if you can make a coherent point without the juvenile insults, please do so. However, I'm not gonna get into a name-calling contest with you. I don't think Jesus would approve.

 

[Jerry]

I believe that change is for 2026 only. It's time for major conferences to shut ND totally out. That includes preventing their schools from scheduling ND. Starve them until they are willing to play by the same rules as every other team.

I doubt they'd institute a change like that for only one year, but it's probably academic in any case because I think you're going to see the playoff expand to more teams.

As for shutting out Notre Dame, boycotting them, and so forth, there is no chance of that happening.

Again, they're playing by the rules that exist in the sport at the present time. I mean, if you can identify an actually existing rule that they didn't play by, please do so.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

Mary, if you can make a coherent point without the juvenile insults, please do so. However, I'm not gonna get into a name-calling contest with you. I don't think Jesus would approve.

Do you think Jesus approves of ND fraudulently pretending that they are Catholic? Did Jesus approve of killing that student filming practice up on a lift in high winds a few years back? And then covering it up?

 

[NittanyLion99]

Well as for playing by the rules, like, whose rules? Notre Dame played by the rules in force at this time. If you want a rule saying no team that isn't in a conference can qualify for a playoff spot, OK, then put that rule on the books. Thinking there should be such a rule does not make it exist.

By the way, here's some irony for you: the rules are changing next year but not in a direction that you would favor. Specifically, Notre Dame will be guaranteed a playoff spot if it finishes in the top-12 of the final CFP poll regardless.

I just don't agree with you on the question of strength of schedule. In fact, according to ESPN's index (linked below), Notre Dame played a more competitive schedule in 2025 than Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon, Ole Miss, or Texas Tech. Sagarin's SOS list agrees.

Meanwhile, the FPI index shows Notre Dame a bit further down the list (#44) but still a notch better than Miami. Actually 44 is the lowest number I've seen, but given that there are 136 teams, even that rank is hardly disgraceful.

But all this is beside the point of my argument, which, again, is as capsulized above: Notre Dame's exclusion from the field by a last-minute reordering of the final rankings in order to give the SEC a 5th team while accommodating the ACC and ESPN was obviously and purely politics.

College football strength of schedule: 2025 rankings ahead of CFP release

A look at the college football strength of schedule rankings ahead of the release of the first College Football Playoff rankings of 2025.

fbschedules.com

Your final sentence is 100% true. It was political. Miami shouldn't be in, but the committee chose to not create P4 conference friction. (The bigger scandal IMHO is that the 2 teams in the ACC championship were not considered for the playoff on merit, and Miami was on the bubble. The ACC needs to do better to determine their champion. 7-5 Duke in that game, and now as your champ, is a disgrace.)

That said, while I don't like the politics, I absolutely love that ND is on the receiving end of it. #karma For far too long, ND has lived a life of privilege and received all benefits of the doubt. Now, their refusal to play a bowl game shows just what a bunch of spoiled, entitled, A**holes they really are. As I said in another thread, if I was the committee, I would DQ them from next year's playoff out of principle. I wish South Bend would fall into a sink hole and take ND and Mayor Pete with it.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

Your final sentence is 100% true. It was political. Miami shouldn't be in, but the committee chose to not create P4 conference friction. (The bigger scandal IMHO is that the 2 teams in the ACC championship were not considered for the playoff on merit, and Miami was on the bubble. The ACC needs to do better to determine their champion. 7-5 Duke in that game, and now as your champ, is a disgrace.)

That said, while I don't like the politics, I absolutely love that ND is on the receiving end of it. #karma For far too long, ND has lived a life of privilege and received all benefits of the doubt. Now, their refusal to play a bowl game shows just what a bunch of spoiled, entitled, A**holes they really are. As I said in another thread, if I was the committee, I would DQ them from next year's playoff out of principle. I wish South Bend would fall into a sink hole and take ND and Mayor Pete with it.

I would think that ND's refusal to go to a bowl game as a public rebut to not making the playoff is grounds to change the 2026 policy of having to include them if they are ranked 12 or higher. Plus, with Notre Dame only scheduling 4 teams with winning records, they could run the table and not deserve to be in the playoff.

If ND wants to spite the conferences for not getting the nod this year by not playing in a bowl, then they should be removed from consideration next year as well. Let that be a lesson.

 

[GregInPitt]

I would think that ND's refusal to go to a bowl game as a public rebut to not making the playoff is grounds to change the 2026 policy of having to include them if they are ranked 12 or higher. Plus, with Notre Dame only scheduling 4 teams with winning records, they could run the table and not deserve to be in the playoff.

If ND wants to spite the conferences for not getting the nod this year by not playing in a bowl, then they should be removed from consideration next year as well. Let that be a lesson.

I kind of like the fact that we won't see ND playing in a bowl game. I considered that good news and hope they continue that line of thinking!

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

I kind of like the fact that we won't see ND playing in a bowl game. I considered that good news and hope they continue that line of thinking!

Now there are rumors of Freeman to the Giants. Would love to scoop up some ND players and recruits if it happens. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ot...there-seems-to-be-some-real-smoke/ar-AA1RW8Io

 

[91Joe95]

Yeah, I know there will be no tears shed for the Irish but let's not pretend that the committee's final ranking with respect to Alabama, Notre Dame, and Miami was anything other than pure politics. There was no science...much less intellectual integrity...to it.

They were afraid to stiff sacred Alabama and the mighty SEC even though Alabama has 3 losses and has not looked terribly good over the last four games of the season before getting dominated by Georgia in the CCG.

They were afraid to stiff the entire ACC after 5-loss Duke took down Virginia in that league's CCG, threatening to leave the conference without a single participant in the playoff while teams like JMU and Tulane got a ticket to the dance.

Therefore, Notre Dame, which is playing arguably the best college football in the country now and only a few weeks ago was ranked 8 CFP spots ahead of Miami while never once being ranked behind Miami until today's final list came out, got the shaft.

So now fans won't get to see a Notre Dame-Oklahoma matchup in Norman and after that a potential Notre Dame-Indiana game. Either one of those might have been a classic.

The head-to-head argument is pure bullshite. Funny thing about head-to-head. The media blatherers haul that factor out when it suits them and fits their preferred narrative. Other times they'll solemnly look into the camera and tell us why it really doesn't matter. Remember 2016 when our head-to-head win over Ohio State suddenly counted for nothing?

If Notre Dame's 3-point loss to Miami in Miami's home stadium early in the year were such a decisive factor, then why did it take the committee 5 full weeks to figure that out? Why was Notre Dame ranked ahead of Miami as recently as last Tuesday? What happened between then and now to change the equation?

Here's the thing. I just don't like to have my intelligence insulted. Don't look me in the eye and tell me stuff that makes no sense because that suggests to me that you think I'm dumb enough to believe it.

OK, I get the people rubbing their hands in glee over Notre Dame getting screwed but as the fan of a team that's been screwed so many times over the last many decades, the only time I'm gonna rub my hands in glee is when either Ohio State or Michigan or the SEC gets screwed over. And guess what...that ain't never gonna happen...and we all know why...

The committee says they don't want to penalize teams for losing a conference championship game, and that's why Alabama's 3rd loss "doesn't count," but then they turn around and penalize Virginia by leaving them out over Miami.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

The committee says they don't want to penalize teams for losing a conference championship game, and that's why Alabama's 3rd loss "doesn't count," but then they turn around and penalize Virginia by leaving them out over Miami.

There really is no real criteria. It is what the committee feels like. Why was BYU penalized for a 2nd loss to the same #4 ranked team in their championship game. They have fewer losses than Bama and better losses than UVA, MIA, and ND.

 

[marylovesthelions]

Mary, if you can make a coherent point without the juvenile insults, please do so. However, I'm not gonna get into a name-calling contest with you. I don't think Jesus would approve.

Mea culpa. You are correct. I apologize.
ND did not get screwed. They should never be considered for the playoffs until they play a league schedule. They never should have been ranked ahead of a team with the same record who beat them. It seems that much of the media has always been biased in favor of ND.
No league should let them play a league schedule in any sport until they join a league, ex playing an ACC BB schedule.
They have a huge financial advantage as an independent. Make them play an independent schedule in all sports.

PS: ND & UM suck. Both have arrogant fan bases.

 

[marylovesthelions]

The committee says they don't want to penalize teams for losing a conference championship game, and that's why Alabama's 3rd loss "doesn't count," but then they turn around and penalize Virginia by leaving them out over Miami.

$$$ Alabama will draw millions more viewers. VA would draw flies. It is a $ game.

 

[NittanyLion99]

The committee says they don't want to penalize teams for losing a conference championship game, and that's why Alabama's 3rd loss "doesn't count," but then they turn around and penalize Virginia by leaving them out over Miami.

UVA was never in on individual merit. They were #17.
UVA would have been one of the "5 highest ranked conference champs" if they beat Duke.
With the UVA loss, the ACC champ is unranked Duke.
That means that JMU and Tulane become the #4 and #5 highest ranked conference champs.