Paul finebaum says that Jim harbaugh is a total fraud and Stephen Smith agrees

Dailybuck777 said:
He also calls Michigan fans despicable and reminds people that Harbaugh accused Saban and Kirby Smart of cheating. 8.45 in video

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Perhaps the only way to actually penalize Michigan for cheating is in the court of public opinion. If it damages their reputation and they are resented for cheating their way to the top, then people won't want to be a part of their program. If Michigan is synonymous with cheating who wants to rep that?
 
LudicrousSpeedGO! said:
Perhaps the only way to actually penalize Michigan for cheating is in the court of public opinion. If it damages their reputation and they are resented for cheating their way to the top, then people won't want to be a part of their program. If Michigan is synonymous with cheating who wants to rep that?
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I think the only way to hurt the program or severely penalize the program would be to have a post season ban while cutting scholarships. Kids today don't care about anything else, certainly not about Jim Harbaugh and if he cheated. Just because Michigan cheated two years ago means very little to today's recruits in my opinion.
 
ryoder1 said:
I think the only way to hurt the program or severely penalize the program would be to have a post season ban while cutting scholarships. Kids today don't care about anything else, certainly not about Jim Harbaugh and if he cheated. Just because Michigan cheated two years ago means very little to today's recruits in my opinion.
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If everything Michigan is labelled cheating, who wants to be a part of that? It's not like the cheating was isolated to Hairball. Their current head coach engaged in the cheating. Their current players were being told what the other teams were running and are cheaters. That is their brand now.
 
LudicrousSpeedGO! said:
If everything Michigan is labelled cheating, who wants to be a part of that? It's not like the cheating was isolated to Hairball. Their current head coach engaged in the cheating. Their current players were being told what the other teams were running and are cheaters. That is their brand now.
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That is what we want their brand to be (cheaters) but I'm not convinced that is what it is now or will be. It may be among their rival programs but it doesn't matter what Penn State fans think.

What do the recruits value? They like the guy recruiting them, love the facilities, love the fact they can be developed for the NFL, love the rich blue blood tradition...and of course love the NIL money being floated their way. They can minimize the cheating to the recruits. Harbaugh didn't know and is gone anyway; Moore had no idea; It was isolated to a few rogue, bad apples and they have been removed from the program....yada yada yada. They have PR people that will spin this to make them look as good as possible. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see their brand tarnished and see them take a big hit with recruiting and on-field performance but I don't think it will happen in a meaningful way.
 
ryoder1 said:
That is what we want their brand to be (cheaters) but I'm not convinced that is what it is now or will be. It may be among their rival programs but it doesn't matter what Penn State fans think.

What do the recruits value? They like the guy recruiting them, love the facilities, love the fact they can be developed for the NFL, love the rich blue blood tradition...and of course love the NIL money being floated their way. They can minimize the cheating to the recruits. Harbaugh didn't know and is gone anyway; Moore had no idea; It was isolated to a few rogue, bad apples and they have been removed from the program....yada yada yada. They have PR people that will spin this to make them look as good as possible. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see their brand tarnished and see them take a big hit with recruiting and on-field performance but I don't think it will happen in a meaningful way.
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Of course they will spin it to recruits, but if you have the talking heads on the programs that the young athletes and their families watch identifying Michigan as cheaters then that becomes their brand. It obviously is who they are. They embraced it. They defended it. They continue to defend it. And if they lie about it to recruits and families, it will be obvious that is who they are.

I don't know many people who want their name associated with a toxic brand of cheating. Sure, they can offer NIL and a chance at the NFL but so can 100+ other schools that haven't branded themselves as cheaters.
 
LudicrousSpeedGO! said:
Of course they will spin it to recruits, but if you have the talking heads on the programs that the young athletes and their families watch identifying Michigan as cheaters then that becomes their brand. It obviously is who they are. They embraced it. They defended it. They continue to defend it. And if they lie about it to recruits and families, it will be obvious that is who they are.

I don't know many people who want their name associated with a toxic brand of cheating. Sure, they can offer NIL and a chance at the NFL but so can 100+ other schools that haven't branded themselves as cheaters.
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That is just negative recruiting. All the recruits and their families will take that with a grain of salt. They just got a top 10 QB and the top RB as all this went down. I have a very hard time believing their recruiting will be negatively affected in any way. We will see over the next year. Hopefully they have a poor season and that leads to a weaker recruiting class.
 
ryoder1 said:
That is just negative recruiting. All the recruits and their families will take that with a grain of salt. They just got a top 10 QB and the top RB as all this went down. I have a very hard time believing their recruiting will be negatively affected in any way. We will see over the next year. Hopefully they have a poor season and that leads to a weaker recruiting class.
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I'm not suggesting that PSU negative recruit them. I am suggesting that the talking heads on ESPN and other networks and guys like Urban Meyer coming out and speaking to Michigan's cheating will help shape a negative view of Michigan's cheating scandal even if they have no real penalties. They have soiled their name, damaged their brand, by how much, we'll see. But if the major networks are discussing it this fall, there will be no need to negative recruit them. The recruits and their families will all view Michigan as the cheaters they made themselves into.
 
LudicrousSpeedGO! said:
I'm not suggesting that PSU negative recruit them. I am suggesting that the talking heads on ESPN and other networks and guys like Urban Meyer coming out and speaking to Michigan's cheating will help shape a negative view of Michigan's cheating scandal even if they have no real penalties. They have soiled their name, damaged their brand, by how much, we'll see. But if the major networks are discussing it this fall, there will be no need to negative recruit them. The recruits and their families will all view Michigan as the cheaters they made themselves into.
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Some may but not most of them in my opinion. The sports media will not be that hard on them. This is Michigan! They are Michigan men! I am being sarcastic but there is truth to it. The Big Ten network won't say anything against their golden boy. Meyer will because he hates them but he is biased and people know that. The B10 network won't have him say much about it. At the end of the day since the NCAA has no authority Michigan got off easy and I don't see their football performance being impacted in a negative way. To be clear, they may be seen as cheaters by people or fans of the game and that would tarnish their football brand but I don't see it affecting their recruiting and resulting on-field performance.
 
ryoder1 said:
Some may but not most of them in my opinion. The sports media will not be that hard on them. This is Michigan! They are Michigan men! I am being sarcastic but there is truth to it. The Big Ten network won't say anything against their golden boy. Meyer will because he hates them but he is biased and people know that. The B10 network won't have him say much about it. At the end of the day since the NCAA has no authority Michigan got off easy and I don't see their football performance being impacted in a negative way. To be clear, they may be seen as cheaters by people or fans of the game and that would tarnish their football brand but I don't see it affecting their recruiting and resulting on-field performance.
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I don't know. 100+ other schools and all of the talking heads know that Michigan cheated their way to a title in the most brazen cheating scandal in NCAA history and got a slap on the wrist. Not just that, they fought it the whole way and are appealing the overly light penalties! 100+ other schools and all of their alum including those in the media are going to harbor contempt for the cheaters. And with ESPN's SEC affiliation, I could see them bringing Michigan's cheating up repetitively.
 
LudicrousSpeedGO! said:
I don't know. 100+ other schools and all of the talking heads know that Michigan cheated their way to a title in the most brazen cheating scandal in NCAA history and got a slap on the wrist. Not just that, they fought it the whole way and are appealing the overly light penalties! 100+ other schools and all of their alum including those in the media are going to harbor contempt for the cheaters. And with ESPN's SEC affiliation, I could see them bringing Michigan's cheating up repetitively.
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I hope you are right because they are cheaters and they are totally arrogant as evidenced by the fact that they are appealing and saying they really didn't do anything wrong.

I think what can help in terms of hurting their program is that Moore is still there and other coaches so hopefully that hits home with recruits...."Do I want to play for a coach and coaches that cheat?" I do think Moore is on a pretty short leash. I don't know what his contract length is but say for example they go 8-4 this year he could be fired. If not then in 2026 if they miss the playoffs again he probably is gone. They will also monitor reruiting so if it does indeed slip a lot then that will be reason to fire him unless he is able to win with sub par recruiting which is highly doubtful. If they clean house with the coaches and have a completely new regime there versus their cheating regime then that makes it a nice clean story for recruits transfers and their families.
 
ryoder1 said:
Some may but not most of them in my opinion. The sports media will not be that hard on them. This is Michigan! They are Michigan men! I am being sarcastic but there is truth to it. The Big Ten network won't say anything against their golden boy. Meyer will because he hates them but he is biased and people know that. The B10 network won't have him say much about it. At the end of the day since the NCAA has no authority Michigan got off easy and I don't see their football performance being impacted in a negative way. To be clear, they may be seen as cheaters by people or fans of the game and that would tarnish their football brand but I don't see it affecting their recruiting and resulting on-field performance.
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ryoder1 said:
Meyer will because he hates them but he is biased and people know that.
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I don't think that Meyer hates Michigan at all. Many times while he was in Ohio State he stated that you need to beat your rival, but that you need to respect your rival also. I don't remember Meyer making negative statements about Michigan. Also, his statements are consistent with those of other Big ten coaches who were livid about what Michigan did.
 
Dailybuck777 said:
I don't think that Meyer hates Michigan at all. Many times while he was in Ohio State he stated that you need to beat your rival, but that you need to respect your rival also. I don't remember Meyer making negative statements about Michigan. Also, his statements are consistent with those of other Big ten coaches who were livid about what Michigan did.
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Trust me, after this cheating scandal he does not respect them.
 
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