Penn State #2 in AP poll

[Lazy Dave]

Dave, are you too Lazy to check the chart yourself? [just kidding you]

For whom they voted is not so relevant to the post by Frank Lee I was responding to. He mentioned how regional most voting is but added that legacy Big Ten writers didn't vote PSU #1 in 1994. I then scanned the chart to see for whom writers with Big Ten school logos voted.

Now to answer your question: it would appear at my glance that most voted for Texas while 2 picked the Buckeyes.

My point is that while conference loyalty might exist in the SEC, similar league affinity seems to elude the Nittany Lions.

And I do hope you realize I was only referencing your name above for humor. No offense is meant.

No worries bud. It's deserved!

The reason I was curious was because, honestly, until we beat OSU I would have a hard time putting us above them in any preseason poll. Sure, they replace a bunch, but they have recruited top 3 for a decade and acquired a few key players in the portal (UNC transfer DE probably the biggest).

Now Texas, I think they could be overrated. They seem to have turned the corner from decades of overrated mediocrity. However, they are having huge changeover this year (4/5 OL, lost 5 DTs, Ewers is gone). Sure, they have Arch, but he didn't do anything that special in relief and didn't beat out Ewers. Is he *really* good or does he just QB royalty last name?

 

[Frank Lee]

Dave, are you too Lazy to check the chart yourself? [just kidding you]

For whom they voted is not so relevant to the post by Frank Lee I was responding to. He mentioned how regional most voting is but added that legacy Big Ten writers didn't vote PSU #1 in 1994. I then scanned the chart to see for whom writers with Big Ten school logos voted.

Now to answer your question: it would appear at my glance that most voted for Texas while 2 picked the Buckeyes.

My point is that while conference loyalty might exist in the SEC, similar league affinity seems to elude the Nittany Lions.

And I do hope you realize I was only referencing your name above for humor. No offense is meant.

Makes me want to see the Big10 roster of referees. Where they grew up and where they now live. How many now are from NJ, PA, and MD?

 

[Old Siward]

Makes me want to see the Big10 roster of referees. Where they grew up and where they now live. How many now are from NJ, PA, and MD?

You know, Frank, recent events involving the Main Darling of the Big Two in this conference lead me to wonder how convenient it was for Michigan grad and athlete **** Honig to be able to officiate league games. It was **** (pun intended) who officiated the infamous 2002 Iowa-Penn State game in which Joe chased Honig down after the game to vent a few words.

Sure all sorts of fans will issue the usual diatribe about "overcoming" biased officiating and that "refs don't make you lose a game"; however, all of us have seen how a critical call late in a close game between evenly-matched teams can swing the outcome. Look no farther than 2005 PSU at Michigan where homegrown Witvoet pretty much overcame the powerful play of Michael Robinson to hand UM a win and end the undefeated season the the Nittany Lions.

And I won't even bring up John O'Neill and 2014 PSU-OSU. Heck, a functioning replay machine (or at least a glance up at the huge stadium screen) and a check of the play clock likely would have given James Franklin a much needed W over the nemesis Buckeyes.

No, of course not ALL Penn State losses are attributable to biased officiating. But in a few games against the Bug Two, there were not merely bad calls but in several cases outright bizarre ones that directly influenced the ojutcomes. Here I think of dropped balls being counted as catches (2003 vs OSU) or as interceptions (2014 OSU). Or perhaps a catch in bounds by a WR who has boith feet in bounds ruled an incomplete pass while an opposing WR whose heel is OOB has his 4th quarter catch ruled complete.

And the funniest part for me is that for nearly 40 years, whenever fans wanted to talk about such calls "evening out," they had to go back to 1982 and the McCloskey catch versus Nebraska to cite one that benefitted the Lions. To helo their cause, Joe even offered up one for them in 1997 in a game against Minnesota.

So let the "don't blame refs" chants begin. For probably 90% of games the chant is valid. But in the Big Ten, when either of the 2 Darlings is in need of a W, I think there might be some doubt.

 

[Frank Lee]

You know, Frank, recent events involving the Main Darling of the Big Two in this conference lead me to wonder how convenient it was for Michigan grad and athlete **** Honig to be able to officiate league games. It was **** (pun intended) who officiated the infamous 2002 Iowa-Penn State game in which Joe chased Honig down after the game to vent a few words.

Sure all sorts of fans will issue the usual diatribe about "overcoming" biased officiating and that "refs don't make you lose a game"; however, all of us have seen how a critical call late in a close game between evenly-matched teams can swing the outcome. Look no farther than 2005 PSU at Michigan where homegrown Witvoet pretty much overcame the powerful play of Michael Robinson to hand UM a win and end the undefeated season the the Nittany Lions.

And I won't even bring up John O'Neill and 2014 PSU-OSU. Heck, a functioning replay machine (or at least a glance up at the huge stadium screen) and a check of the play clock likely would have given James Franklin a much needed W over the nemesis Buckeyes.

No, of course not ALL Penn State losses are attributable to biased officiating. But in a few games against the Bug Two, there were not merely bad calls but in several cases outright bizarre ones that directly influenced the ojutcomes. Here I think of dropped balls being counted as catches (2003 vs OSU) or as interceptions (2014 OSU). Or perhaps a catch in bounds by a WR who has boith feet in bounds ruled an incomplete pass while an opposing WR whose heel is OOB has his 4th quarter catch ruled complete.

And the funniest part for me is that for nearly 40 years, whenever fans wanted to talk about such calls "evening out," they had to go back to 1982 and the McCloskey catch versus Nebraska to cite one that benefitted the Lions. To helo their cause, Joe even offered up one for them in 1997 in a game against Minnesota.

So let the "don't blame refs" chants begin. For probably 90% of games the chant is valid. But in the Big Ten, when either of the 2 Darlings is in need of a W, I think there might be some doubt.

A questionable ball placement or a strategic holding call is all that it takes.

 

[ryoder1]

You know, Frank, recent events involving the Main Darling of the Big Two in this conference lead me to wonder how convenient it was for Michigan grad and athlete **** Honig to be able to officiate league games. It was **** (pun intended) who officiated the infamous 2002 Iowa-Penn State game in which Joe chased Honig down after the game to vent a few words.

Sure all sorts of fans will issue the usual diatribe about "overcoming" biased officiating and that "refs don't make you lose a game"; however, all of us have seen how a critical call late in a close game between evenly-matched teams can swing the outcome. Look no farther than 2005 PSU at Michigan where homegrown Witvoet pretty much overcame the powerful play of Michael Robinson to hand UM a win and end the undefeated season the the Nittany Lions.

And I won't even bring up John O'Neill and 2014 PSU-OSU. Heck, a functioning replay machine (or at least a glance up at the huge stadium screen) and a check of the play clock likely would have given James Franklin a much needed W over the nemesis Buckeyes.

No, of course not ALL Penn State losses are attributable to biased officiating. But in a few games against the Bug Two, there were not merely bad calls but in several cases outright bizarre ones that directly influenced the ojutcomes. Here I think of dropped balls being counted as catches (2003 vs OSU) or as interceptions (2014 OSU). Or perhaps a catch in bounds by a WR who has boith feet in bounds ruled an incomplete pass while an opposing WR whose heel is OOB has his 4th quarter catch ruled complete.

And the funniest part for me is that for nearly 40 years, whenever fans wanted to talk about such calls "evening out," they had to go back to 1982 and the McCloskey catch versus Nebraska to cite one that benefitted the Lions. To helo their cause, Joe even offered up one for them in 1997 in a game against Minnesota.

So let the "don't blame refs" chants begin. For probably 90% of games the chant is valid. But in the Big Ten, when either of the 2 Darlings is in need of a W, I think there might be some doubt.

'02 Michigan game. Which WR did they call out of bounds? Bryant Johnson I think.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

You know, Frank, recent events involving the Main Darling of the Big Two in this conference lead me to wonder how convenient it was for Michigan grad and athlete **** Honig to be able to officiate league games. It was **** (pun intended) who officiated the infamous 2002 Iowa-Penn State game in which Joe chased Honig down after the game to vent a few words.

Sure all sorts of fans will issue the usual diatribe about "overcoming" biased officiating and that "refs don't make you lose a game"; however, all of us have seen how a critical call late in a close game between evenly-matched teams can swing the outcome. Look no farther than 2005 PSU at Michigan where homegrown Witvoet pretty much overcame the powerful play of Michael Robinson to hand UM a win and end the undefeated season the the Nittany Lions.

And I won't even bring up John O'Neill and 2014 PSU-OSU. Heck, a functioning replay machine (or at least a glance up at the huge stadium screen) and a check of the play clock likely would have given James Franklin a much needed W over the nemesis Buckeyes.

No, of course not ALL Penn State losses are attributable to biased officiating. But in a few games against the Bug Two, there were not merely bad calls but in several cases outright bizarre ones that directly influenced the ojutcomes. Here I think of dropped balls being counted as catches (2003 vs OSU) or as interceptions (2014 OSU). Or perhaps a catch in bounds by a WR who has boith feet in bounds ruled an incomplete pass while an opposing WR whose heel is OOB has his 4th quarter catch ruled complete.

And the funniest part for me is that for nearly 40 years, whenever fans wanted to talk about such calls "evening out," they had to go back to 1982 and the McCloskey catch versus Nebraska to cite one that benefitted the Lions. To helo their cause, Joe even offered up one for them in 1997 in a game against Minnesota.

So let the "don't blame refs" chants begin. For probably 90% of games the chant is valid. But in the Big Ten, when either of the 2 Darlings is in need of a W, I think there might be some doubt.

All you need to look at is the in conference and out of conference records for Michigan. The refs have gotten better and better at hiding their influence on games. They call it so that penalties and yardage even out and still exert influence in what they do and don't call and when. A scoop and score TD in a game against Ohio St is nullified and it shows a small holding penalty. A 50 yard run called back on holding is still just a 10 yard penalty in the books. That same 10 yard penalty can happen at the end of half at your own 20 yard line on a 5 yard loss and it looks the same in the books. Even clear replay evidence can be "lost" or "not available" while everyone in the stadium is watching it on a big screen.

 

[Frank Lee]

All you need to look at is the in conference and out of conference records for Michigan. The refs have gotten better and better at hiding their influence on games. They call it so that penalties and yardage even out and still exert influence in what they do and don't call and when. A scoop and score TD in a game against Ohio St is nullified and it shows a small holding penalty. A 50 yard run called back on holding is still just a 10 yard penalty in the books. That same 10 yard penalty can happen at the end of half at your own 20 yard line on a 5 yard loss and it looks the same in the books. Even clear replay evidence can be "lost" or "not available" while everyone in the stadium is watching it on a big screen.

Not only will this year's success be dependent on Kotelnicki, Allar, etc., but also avoiding those little things that allow the refs to become involved. If the first down marker is at your own 33 yard line, then dive or step out while reaching for the 34. If one feels the need to step over a tackled player, then don't do it. Targeting, moving picks/OPI, grand standing, etc....avoid them.

 

[The Spin Meister]

'02 Michigan game. Which WR did they call out of bounds? Bryant Johnson I think.

We partially blocked a punt late in game at the 15 yd line……they called roughing the kicker.

At least twice they ran a crooked line to award a first down.

Ref blocked a pass over the middle by not ducking or moving.

Walking out of the stadium even scUM fans said we got robbed.