Today's games make me realize just how far Penn State...

Wesauking Lion said:
It also puts us behind the top 10 teams which seem to consistently beat us for the last 10 years as evidenced by our record in top 10 games. I would also add crappy game day decisions, preparation, coaching, high school game plans, and stupid play calling in crucial times.

Other than that... we have them right where we want them.
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You are assuming those top ten teams are consistently top ten in recruiting.

That's not true.

Michigan, for example, recruited behind us a few years.

Ole Miss? Not sure they ever recruited ahead of us.

Being consistently top ten means you should have the talent to play with anyone.

Of course, our ranking was totally BS. But that is another story for another day.
 
The old way of thinking about business organizations is that they were like machines. The parts fit, were efficient, and everything hummed. Then the sociologists stepped in and said that they were about people and the community. Thus, HR, attorneys, the Cracker Barrel CEO, James Franklin, and Sandy Barbour happen. I say BS to all that and create a football machine. Install proven schemes that work and get the players that fit. No prima donnas and misfits. It seems that OSU, IU, and TAMU are like that.
 
LionDeNittany said:
You are assuming those top ten teams are consistently top ten in recruiting.

That's not true.

Michigan, for example, recruited behind us a few years.

Ole Miss? Not sure they ever recruited ahead of us.

Being consistently top ten means you should have the talent to play with anyone.

Of course, our ranking was totally BS. But that is another story for another day.
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Teams like Alabama, Georgia, OSU, Oregon, Notre Dame, and Texas have top recruiting and more often than not they finish in the top 10.

PSU was top 10 last year largely on the strength of their #6 ranked class of 2022.

Yes sometimes teams with lower ranked recruits like Indiana or Ole Miss will sneak into the top 10 but that tends to only happen every so often.
 
bdroc said:
Teams like Alabama, Georgia, OSU, Oregon, Notre Dame, and Texas have top recruiting and more often than not they finish in the top 10.

PSU was top 10 last year largely on the strength of their #6 ranked class of 2022.

Yes sometimes teams with lower ranked recruits like Indiana or Ole Miss will sneak into the top 10 but that tends to only happen every so often.
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Teams like Alabama, Georgia, OSU, ORegon, Notre Dame and Texas lose quite regularly to teams who recruit annually in the 20s.

Yet, here we are recruiting around #11, and can't EVER beat a top 5 team.

This isn't because we aren't recruiting well enough.

And let's not forget, most of those top 5 teams don't end up in the top 5. They are just there when we play them.
 
LionDeNittany said:
Teams like Alabama, Georgia, OSU, ORegon, Notre Dame and Texas lose quite regularly to teams who recruit annually in the 20s.

Yet, here we are recruiting around #11, and can't EVER beat a top 5 team.

This isn't because we aren't recruiting well enough.

And let's not forget, most of those top 5 teams don't end up in the top 5. They are just there when we play them.
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The top 5 recruiting teams do more often than not finish top 10 and regularly top 5. OSU, UGA, and Bama are the common members of the recent top 5 recruiting classes, and it shows on the field very consistently.
 
GregInPitt said:
The top 5 recruiting teams do more often than not finish top 10 and regularly top 5. OSU, UGA, and Bama are the common members of the recent top 5 recruiting classes, and it shows on the field very consistently.
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And the system or schemes come into play. And QB play somewhat, but doesn't need to be a 5* pro style. Just someone who doesn't get happy feet and is competent within the scheme.
 
LionDeNittany said:
Teams like Alabama, Georgia, OSU, ORegon, Notre Dame and Texas lose quite regularly to teams who recruit annually in the 20s.

Yet, here we are recruiting around #11, and can't EVER beat a top 5 team.

This isn't because we aren't recruiting well enough.

And let's not forget, most of those top 5 teams don't end up in the top 5. They are just there when we play them.
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I agree 100% that a top 20 recruiting team should be able to beat a top 8 recruiting team once in a while. IMO Franklin couldn't do it because his sphincter got tight in those games. How else do you explain losing to teams like OSU by 1 pt after having 15 pt leads?

But... PSU hasn't been recruiting around 11. They've been recruiting around 15th. The 2022 class was an exception.
 
bdroc said:
I agree 100% that a top 20 recruiting team should be able to beat a top 8 recruiting team once in a while. IMO Franklin couldn't do it because his sphincter got tight in those games. How else do you explain losing to teams like OSU by 1 pt after having 15 pt leads?

But... PSU hasn't been recruiting around 11. They've been recruiting around 15th. The 2022 class was an exception.
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How about Indiana and aTm?

HS recruiting is such a tiny part of the game today.

Just like Paterno took too long to adjust to scholarship limits, Franklin mever adjusted to free agency.

And, i will state this again, Singleton sucked last season too. Franklin stuck with him through 6 games this year.

LdN
 
LionDeNittany said:
How about Indiana and aTm?

HS recruiting is such a tiny part of the game today.

Just like Paterno took too long to adjust to scholarship limits, Franklin mever adjusted to free agency.

And, i will state this again, Singleton sucked last season too. Franklin stuck with him through 6 games this year.

LdN
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aTm has had good recruiting classes but not top 5. They also didn't finish in the top 10 very often. That might be changing because they've entered the big spending rat race.

I think Indiana will fade in coming years. They won't be as bad as they used to be because they've opened their wallet. Just not enough to be perennial top 10.
 
bdroc said:
aTm has had good recruiting classes but not top 5. They also didn't finish in the top 10 very often. That might be changing because they've entered the big spending rat race.

I think Indiana will fade in coming years. They won't be as bad as they used to be because they've opened their wallet. Just not enough to be perennial top 10.
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We'll see.
I think recruiting rankings are similar to draft rankings.

Drafting early in the NFL can help, but it's mostly cap management and getting the right free agents.

LdN
 
Is recruiting a top 10 class every year as important now since we have the portal? Certainly getting top talent is important but you can also draft if you have the money.

I think recruiting is a problem at PSU but we also have no identifiable scheme, poor game day coaching, lack execution... oh hell... the list goes on...
 
As mentioned, I was at the UH-ASU game on Saturday. Both starting QBs, Weigman and Leavitt, read the field well and laid the ball on the money most of the time. There were some forced passes when all the receivers were covered, but each knew when and how to quickly tuck and run. Their similar style was close to that of McSorley's and Clifford's. IMHO, a 4* QB, and maybe a 3*, who is confident, a leader, and is reasonably mobile should be enough to win championships provided the other talent is there. I think OSU showed this last year and Michy the year before. Note: I believe Weigman was a 5*, but he didn't work out at TAMU.

Also, Weigman was very good at getting the ball out to RBs in stride on swing routes. It was quick, natural, and not clunky. A pass that QBs should practice a lot, IMO.
 
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It's a tragedy...even a crime figuratively speaking...that Drew Allar will end his Penn State career never once having performed to the level that he had shown in high school and which was predicted for him when he came to the program as the top-rated quarterback in that year's recruiting class.

Sure, some of this is on Drew but it goes beyond him. The system. The coaching. The schemes.

I mean, I watch quarterbacks showing their stuff every Saturday at any number of programs in any number of games. Receivers getting open, making plays. Quarterbacks making throws. Ohio State's kid is an ace in his first year as a starter.

Yet for the last two years we've played with the equivalent of one hand tied behind our backs on offense. No deep passing game. In fact, no real intermediate passing game. No player development. It's frankly ridiculous.
 
bdroc said:
But... PSU hasn't been recruiting around 11. They've been recruiting around 15th. The 2022 class was an exception.
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You can look at that two ways.

One is that Franklin generally performed above his recruiting rankings, and those recruiting rankings were about as well as PSU could expect.

The other is that Franklin's recruiting largely had a ceiling due to his inability to close in big games. I'll buy that recruiting was down in the immediate aftermath of the scandal, yet some of those classes led to our 2016 Big Ten Championship season. A lot of that nucleus came from B'Ob. We should be neck-and-neck with the top teams in the Big Ten for recruiting, in my view, if you take NIL out of the equation. But Ohio State absolutely dominated since Franklin started. I don't think it's because people love the city over State College. I think it's because top players want to play for a winner and have the best chance of being developed for the League. A lot of people outside of Penn State did not take James Franklin seriously or just disliked him for whatever reason. I'd imagine that carried over to some recruits and their handlers, as well. To be fair, I think Franklin and staff did a great job of developing many of the high-end players they got. Look at Saquon, Micah Parsons, Abdul Carter, etc. But we lost enough of those battles, including players in our backyard, that you have to wonder if Franklin did as well as he could given what he had to offer (i.e., PSU was the limiting factor to his recruiting), or if he was part of the reason for losing those battles.
 
IANit said:
You can look at that two ways.

One is that Franklin generally performed above his recruiting rankings, and those recruiting rankings were about as well as PSU could expect.

The other is that Franklin's recruiting largely had a ceiling due to his inability to close in big games. I'll buy that recruiting was down in the immediate aftermath of the scandal, yet some of those classes led to our 2016 Big Ten Championship season. A lot of that nucleus came from B'Ob. We should be neck-and-neck with the top teams in the Big Ten for recruiting, in my view, if you take NIL out of the equation. But Ohio State absolutely dominated since Franklin started. I don't think it's because people love the city over State College. I think it's because top players want to play for a winner and have the best chance of being developed for the League. A lot of people outside of Penn State did not take James Franklin seriously or just disliked him for whatever reason. I'd imagine that carried over to some recruits and their handlers, as well. To be fair, I think Franklin and staff did a great job of developing many of the high-end players they got. Look at Saquon, Micah Parsons, Abdul Carter, etc. But we lost enough of those battles, including players in our backyard, that you have to wonder if Franklin did as well as he could given what he had to offer (i.e., PSU was the limiting factor to his recruiting), or if he was part of the reason for losing those battles.
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Agreed. Franklin had the type of personality and a history of in-game decision-making that could have cast doubts among multiple recruits.
 
IANit said:
Just finished watching Alabama. They're down 22-14 in the 4th quarter on the road, and they leave nothing to chance. They took the game over like great teams do. I'd love to have a coach like DeBoer.
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Yep. That, plus the number 1 recruiting class and much more NIL money and who knows what our new incredible coach will do! Personally, I'm super excited about all the top 5 wins we're due, statistically, once the big guy comes in.
 
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