Next coaching candidates

[jjw165]

Key from Tech signed an extension and Brohm is expected to shortly. Both are considered to be non-options for PS.

Kraft is to hiring big time coaches as Franklin is to winning big time games.

WE ARE….going to need to dig up JoePa

 

[Frank Lee]

This would be a huge mistake if it is done. I don't care who is pushing for it. The ONLY way it works is if these big donors pony up $100M at $25M or more per year to help him with top staff, recruits, and portal additions. Donors want to pony up $100M+, it could potentially work. Otherwise, you are hiring a position coach to jump two levels up and run a program that he is not qualified to run without significant scaffolding.

That's the plan. The learning curve is quick and then the scaffolding is removed.

 

[Frank Lee]

It's not a huge learning curve for Terry. He knows what a football looks like, knows the rules, knows his style, knows which players fit his style, knows the best plays for third and seven as well as for fourth and one, knows the strengths and weaknesses of a 3-4 vs a 4-3, knows to disguise safety blitzes, knows an accurate, relaxed, and savvy QB helps a lot, knows that schemes and sharp cuts gets receivers open, knows that play action can fool defenders, knows that RBs need to hit the hole quickly, knows that special teams can win or lose games, knows that competent and collaborative coordinators are extremely important, knows the importance of recruiting, S&C, technique, detail, and repetition. He played for Joe and was coached by his staff. He gets it. His HC learning curve to get to 90% is six months. He'll need help with the peripheral chores, but he'll be fine.

 

[Administrator]

I was actually a big Franklin supporter until the Northwestern debacle. I even tolerated the UCLA debacle washing it down by telling myself that our team was emotionally spent and theirs was emotionally charged. But you simply can't take a team that finished in the top 4, returned more starters than ANY top team, bring back several players that should have left for the NFL, bring in the most expensive coordinator who just won a natty, and then totally $hit the bed.

I wish this all never happened. I still don't understand how it happened. It had to be Franklin's mental fragility combined with infighting over NIL and playing time. These guys didn't play like a team. They were unfocused. They appeared selfish. They weren't doing the little things. They were finding ways to lose. It was embarrassing. It wasn't Penn State football.

I give Terry tons of credit. He pulled the locker room together. He refocused them. He gave them a reason to fight. But as much as I love Terry, I fully recognize that he is not a legitimate head coach candidate. You simply cannot jump from position coach to head coach without seriously setting the program back. He has to know this. Give Terry a huge raise and a job for life. Bring in a top coach that will maximize the opportunity at PSU.

Now, I'm not all frothing at the mouth like many here about not having announced that top coach. We are not privy to all of what is going on behind the scenes, who the targets are, and where it stands. I know we'll bring in a qualified candidate. I'm positive we will spend a truckload in the portal and leverage a fairly management 2026 schedule to give that coach the best chance to be successful. I realize that we could take a couple of years to get back to where we were before Franklin fell apart. And I also fully realize that some new hires pan out, and some don't. But I'll be patient and wait until they announce the guy and then get 100% behind them.

Explain why Terry isn't a legit coaching candidate? Because he's not political enough? Because Kraft has to have a HR hire? That may not be much of a worry at this point Kraft is on his way out regardless of what he does now. Terry might be his best chance to right the ship. Terry knows the game, I'm sure. He's an excellent recruiter. He played football at Penn State under the best to ever do it. He's already shown he can do the game day part of it. I don't get the need to blow up everything Franklin did. He was good at identifying talent. Lousy at using it against an opponent he couldn't just.overwhelm. He was afraid in big games and his team played like it. Clearly Terry can get better at the finer points of game day management. But the kids respond like they believe in him. They seemed to have fun, which is what it should be about. It's possible that it's fools gold, but I don't think so.

 

[Pennstate_one]

Explain why Terry isn't a legit coaching candidate? Because he's not political enough? Because Kraft has to have a HR hire? That may not be much of a worry at this point Kraft is on his way out regardless of what he does now. Terry might be his best chance to right the ship. Terry knows the game, I'm sure. He's an excellent recruiter. He played football at Penn State under the best to ever do it. He's already shown he can do the game day part of it. I don't get the need to blow up everything Franklin did. He was good at identifying talent. Lousy at using it against an opponent he couldn't just.overwhelm. He was afraid in big games and his team played like it. Clearly Terry can get better at the finer points of game day management. But the kids respond like they believe in him. They seemed to have fun, which is what it should be about. It's possible that it's fools gold, but I don't think so.

I’m with you. At this point it feels like he’s the one, and honestly it should have happened already. Surrounding him with the right staff would set him and the program up the right way. Get it done and let's put this nightmare behind us.

 

[The Spin Meister]

This would be a huge mistake if it is done. I don't care who is pushing for it. The ONLY way it works is if these big donors pony up $100M at $25M or more per year to help him with top staff, recruits, and portal additions. Donors want to pony up $100M+, it could potentially work. Otherwise, you are hiring a position coach to jump two levels up and run a program that he is not qualified to run without significant scaffolding.

Bull . His main attributes have been discussed here ad naseum. And there are many.

The knock is he is ‘only a position coach’ which is bogus. He has a title that says otherwise. He is also the top recruiter. All of which has been discussed many times. Your denying it over and over doesn’t change it.

And there is nothing as being just a position coach. Coaching DBs means knowing what receivers are trying to do. Deciphering their techniques. Knowing what routes are run. Understanding offensive schemes and how to counter them.

Football is not five different positions on a field. It is a complex dance that varies every play with the ‘music’ the offense is playing. And all those ‘position coaches’ all work together to choreograph a proper defense.

He is more than adequate for the job.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

Explain why Terry isn't a legit coaching candidate? Because he's not political enough? Because Kraft has to have a HR hire? That may not be much of a worry at this point Kraft is on his way out regardless of what he does now. Terry might be his best chance to right the ship. Terry knows the game, I'm sure. He's an excellent recruiter. He played football at Penn State under the best to ever do it. He's already shown he can do the game day part of it. I don't get the need to blow up everything Franklin did. He was good at identifying talent. Lousy at using it against an opponent he couldn't just.overwhelm. He was afraid in big games and his team played like it. Clearly Terry can get better at the finer points of game day management. But the kids respond like they believe in him. They seemed to have fun, which is what it should be about. It's possible that it's fools gold, but I don't think so.

Because no one in the history of college football to my knowledge has ever jumped from being a position coach without even coordinator experience to become head coach at a top power 4 school. It could happen with massive scaffolding. But he wouldn't truly be a head coach. He would be a head coach mostly in name only with all of the normal head coach responsibilities delegated to people with more experience in those roles.

It is like saying why isn't winning the powerball a legitimate retirement plan. Yes, there is an extremely low probability that will work out for you, but it isn't a solid plan and it is highly probable that you will crash and burn.

It's also why they don't promote a low-level manager to become the next CEO at fortune 500 companies. The commensurate experience to be successful just isn't there. It is setting them and the organization up for failure.

I love Terry. I love his passion for PSU. I love that he is all PSU all the time. But he is not a head coach. He is a band aid that got the players to refocus their effort and play with passion in a crisis. He will forever be remembered for that and should be retained with a big raise. But what is best for Terry and for PSU is to bring in someone with the experience to be successful as a head coach at a top program.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

Bull . His main attributes have been discussed here ad naseum. And there are many.

The knock is he is ‘only a position coach’ which is bogus. He has a title that says otherwise. He is also the top recruiter. All of which has been discussed many times. Your denying it over and over doesn’t change it.

And there is nothing as being just a position coach. Coaching DBs means knowing what receivers are trying to do. Deciphering their techniques. Knowing what routes are run. Understanding offensive schemes and how to counter them.

Football is not five different positions on a field. It is a complex dance that varies every play with the ‘music’ the offense is playing. And all those ‘position coaches’ all work together to choreograph a proper defense.

He is more than adequate for the job.

List every position coach in the history of college or pro football who have never even been a coordinator who were immediately promoted to be head coach at a top program. We will evaluate their track records.

 

[Frank Lee]

Because no one in the history of college football to my knowledge has ever jumped from being a position coach without even coordinator experience to become head coach at a top power 4 school. It could happen with massive scaffolding. But he wouldn't truly be a head coach. He would be a head coach mostly in name only with all of the normal head coach responsibilities delegated to people with more experience in those roles.

It is like saying why isn't winning the powerball a legitimate retirement plan. Yes, there is an extremely low probability that will work out for you, but it isn't a solid plan and it is highly probable that you will crash and burn.

It's also why they don't promote a low-level manager to become the next CEO at fortune 500 companies. The commensurate experience to be successful just isn't there. It is setting them and the organization up for failure.

I love Terry. I love his passion for PSU. I love that he is all PSU all the time. But he is not a head coach. He is a band aid that got the players to refocus their effort and play with passion in a crisis. He will forever be remembered for that and should be retained with a big raise. But what is best for Terry and for PSU is to bring in someone with the experience to be successful as a head coach at a top program.

I think a disconnect here is believing that overseeing the recruitment and training of people to play football games is equivalent to running say Apple Computer or Google. And also that a position coach who's played the game at a high level and has coached a particular position is equivalent to someone who manages people that process insurance claims or pick and ship items at a warehouse.

 

[Jerry]

I have absolutely no inside information but I'm guessing either Jeff Brohm or Brian Daboli at this point.

So apparently Brohm turned down the job today -- link below.

Meanwhile, word is that Hartline is taking the job at South Florida.

There is increasing chatter about Daboli as the only guy left standing, and I have a sinking feeling he may end up the desperation hire.

So yeah, let's bring on a guy who ingloriously flunked out of the NFL after compiling a 20-40 record as head coach of the Giants and has never been a head coach at the college level. But Nick Saban recommends him so how can we go wrong.

Seriously, this is preferable to Terry Smith? Gimme a break.

Sources: Louisville Coach Jeff Brohm Declines Penn State Offer

The Nittany Lions fired James Franklin in October and were turned down by BYU’s Kalani Sitake a day earlier with Brian Daboll now rising as an option.

www.si.com

 

[Administrator]

List every position coach in the history of college or pro football who have never even been a coordinator who were immediately promoted to be head coach at a top program. We will evaluate their track records.

Dabo Swinney was never a coordinator before getting the top job at Clemson.

There are other successful coaches who've never been coordinators. Urban Meyer, Don Nehlen. Kirk Ferentz was a head coach at Maine, his alma mater, without being a coordinator. He was a position coach in the NFL before Iowa hired him. I don't think there's any football reason a position coach can't make the jump.

Why didn't Franklin promote him? Franklin tended to go outside for coordinator hires. I would guess because he didn't like upsetting the dynamics within the staff.

In the NFL, if the AI is correct, you have John Harbaugh and Andy Reid as a couple of examples of position coaches who were never coordinators before becoming head coaches. The main issue I'd see with Terry is not football, but some of the behind the scenes I'd imagine head coaches do to curry favor with rich alumni. But Franklin must not have done that all that well or he'd still have his job.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Dabo Swinney was never a coordinator before getting the top job at Clemson.

There are other successful coaches who've never been coordinators. Urban Meyer, Don Nehlen. Kirk Ferentz was a head coach at Maine, his alma mater, without being a coordinator. He was a position coach in the NFL before Iowa hired him. I don't think there's any football reason a position coach can't make the jump.

Why didn't Franklin promote him? Franklin tended to go outside for coordinator hires. I would guess because he didn't like upsetting the dynamics within the staff.

In the NFL, if the AI is correct, you have John Harbaugh and Andy Reid as a couple of examples of position coaches who were never coordinators before becoming head coaches. The main issue I'd see with Terry is not football, but some of the behind the scenes I'd imagine head coaches do to curry favor with rich alumni. But Franklin must not have done that all that well or he'd still have his job.

Franklin probably never made him coordinator because Terry was better liked by everybody, including administrators. That made Terry a threat to Franklin.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Tangwell on his recruitment by Terry Smith.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1996408462671302868

 

[SummitLion]

I'd respectfully disagree, based on Terry's own comments. In a PC, he was asked about why it took so long to get the offense throwing the ball down the field and he responded something to the effect that he minded his own business, kept his head down on defense, so it took him a while to figure out what was going on. So, by his own words, he was not involved in "managing the empire." He was a position coach working at the direction of the DC and his "asst HC" title didn't involve having any involvement with the offense.

But yet, within three weeks, he changed the way Franklin was doing things.

 

[SummitLion]

But the agent was using us to get better contracts for all his clients. Huge extensions. Great new contracts.

He even got a $9 million buyout from us for Franklin knowing full well that James was about to sign a deal with VTech which would have cancelled everything we owed him.

Using us made tens of millions for him. More for his clients.

That's what I don't understand. If I understand Franklin's contract, we wouldn't have owed him any money once he signed with VT. Yet we gave him $9M, and hours later he signed with VT. We didn't save $41M, we lost $9M. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Pennstate_one]

Do you guys know if it's true that Matt Campbell doesn't use an agent and handles job inquiries himself? If true, it makes me wander if he is a micro-manager? I'd love PSU to reach out to him.

 

[marylovesthelions]

I will always be a Lions die hard, but. At this stage, this is my assessment of the next 3-5 years and maybe longer. Bo Pelini

Bo Pelini's record at Nebraska was 67-27 overall during his seven seasons as head coach from 2008 to 2014. He maintained a winning record each season, but was fired after the 2014 season, never winning a conference or national championship.

• Overall record: 67-27
• Conference record: 39-17 in the Big Ten (and Big 12 before that)
• Notable achievements: Won at least nine games in every season and won four bowl games
• Fired: He was fired by the university after the 2014 season, despite winning nine games that year

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

I think a disconnect here is believing that overseeing the recruitment and training of people to play football games is equivalent to running say Apple Computer or Google. And also that a position coach who's played the game at a high level and has coached a particular position is equivalent to someone who manages people that process insurance claims or pick and ship items at a warehouse.

Just list all of the successful head coaches of top power 4 programs who were promoted internally from position coach with no coordinator experience directly to head coach and we can discuss their track records.

 

[LudicrousSpeedGO!]

So apparently Brohm turned down the job today -- link below.

Meanwhile, word is that Hartline is taking the job at South Florida.

There is increasing chatter about Daboli as the only guy left standing, and I have a sinking feeling he may end up the desperation hire.

So yeah, let's bring on a guy who ingloriously flunked out of the NFL after compiling a 20-40 record as head coach of the Giants and has never been a head coach at the college level. But Nick Saban recommends him so how can we go wrong.

Seriously, this is preferable to Terry Smith? Gimme a break.

Sources: Louisville Coach Jeff Brohm Declines Penn State Offer

The Nittany Lions fired James Franklin in October and were turned down by BYU’s Kalani Sitake a day earlier with Brian Daboll now rising as an option.

www.si.com

You may recall that Nick Saban also "flunked out of the NFL", as did many other highly successful college coaches. There is little to very modest at best correlation of success at college to success at pros for both players and coaches.

 

[Gitzit]

Just list all of the successful head coaches of top power 4 programs who were promoted internally from position coach with no coordinator experience directly to head coach and we can discuss their track records.

Wait I know this one, TERRY SMITH lol. He did coach 6 games, and did very well with a bunch of player's that had nothing to play for other than for him, and Penn State pride. If you can't see that, you are not very observant.